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 Post subject: TF2 Beta changes - Jan 2012 edition
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:17 pm 
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Here are the beta updates. They may never be implemented, but I'm guessing with all the enforcer whiners out there, some change will happen.

Heavy
Tomislav
  • Removed spin-up buff
  • Removed health penalty
Sandvich
  • The heavy no longer gains health from a Sandvich they drop; It re-fills their Sandvich ammo instead.

Spy
Enforcer stats changed to:
  • 0.5 increased decloak time
  • Unable to see enemy health

DANE is NOT happy about that sandvich nerf, and if this gets added to the game proper, he will rage so hard, RH will write letters to Gabe Newell himself, begging for mercy.

Personally, I don't think that makes the tomislav any worse. yes it does nerf it head to head vs other heavies, but that silent spin is its main power. So many baby camping heavies will still camp with silent spinning guns of death.

Sandvich is relatively OP the way it is, so maybe they should just lessen the tossed sandvich health gain. Folks may not recall that when the sandvich was first introduced, it healed 120 HP, could be eaten continuously, and you couldn't throw it. Tossing a sandvich was patched in 13 months later, after other changes, such as upping the heal to 300 and adding a cooldown to offset that.

Enforcer nerf might work, and affecting decloak time makes more sense than cloak time (this will affect dead ringer spies too). Not seeing enemy health is a pretty big nerf to me, as I love picking off weak enemies, although most are usually running away from action anyway (however not always). I use the bust of Hippocrates for this same reason. Seeing enemy health is just so useful, and TF2 is one of the few games that limits this (which I think is a good thing). BF3, MW, etc allow you to see enemy health, and I think that takes away the mystery, and mind games you can play with someone who can't tell if you are full of health or near death. As a special ability in TF2, it's great.

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 Post subject: Re: TF2 Beta changes - Jan 2012 edition
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:32 pm 
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I thought the sandvich was pretty balanced as is. Drop it to gain +50%, or take the time to eat it and gain +100%. You still have to wait for your gun to spin down/spin up.

The enforcer penalty moving to the decloak is intriguing, though... (I prefer the default revolver as of right now).

Don't care about the Tomislav. The faster spin only aided noob heavies, Sasha is still more powerful overall.

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 Post subject: Re: TF2 Beta changes - Jan 2012 edition
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:39 pm 
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Why do you prefer the default revolver? Do you feel that much of a hit using enforcer + invisibility watch? I really don't feel that cloaking hurts it that much, you just get used to it. But a 2 shot enforcer or 1 shot enforcer crit is really powerful, vs needing 3 shots with revolver. Just curious, as these are my reasons for using the enforcer currently, and of course, with dead ringer it has no downsides at all vs the revolver.

I only think the sandvich is a little OP for the heavy to regain 150 HP (more HP than half the classes even have). It should max out at 100 HP probably. SPUF seems to feel like this sandvich change couldn't come sooner though. Many have been vocal in heavy discussion threads about how OP it is to give a heavy an easy 450 HP without a medic. I think the original intent of tossing a sandvich was to help out others, but most heavies use it on themselves. The class with the most health being able to have 50% more health. Again, I don't really think the sandvich is super OP, but a small nerf to the heavy himself would suffice. This beta change is too extreme.

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 Post subject: Re: TF2 Beta changes - Jan 2012 edition
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:27 pm 
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Often times, I cloak to get away. 3.5 secs vs. 3 secs means the difference between a successful escape and death in some cases. Of course, if I'm using the DR, there is no downside (but I think the IW is more useful in a lot of cases, especially since you can't get the Saharan Spy bonus with the Enforcer). Also, who cares about a 144dmg crit? You already have a weapon that (with some craftiness) kills in 1 hit. It's easier to be crafty with the IW.

(But all this suits my own playstyle. Some people like being battlespies with a free life that recharges every ~20 secs.)

I'd be OK with capping the sandvich health at 100. It's a medium health kit for other people. (Btw, I always loved that if you kill a heavy and you pick up his dropped sandvich, everyone gets +50hp, except for the scout, who get +75).

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 Post subject: Re: TF2 Beta changes - Jan 2012 edition
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:31 pm 
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I am still not sure why the scout gets 75 health and others get 50, other than being a reference to the Meet the Scout video? Seems odd they'd go so far to make a joke that [minimally] changes gameplay.

I use the IW most of the time anyway, but I think 2 shots vs 3 is a big revolver changer, enough, for me, to take the 0.5 sec cloak time hit. Before the enforcer came out, I wanted a more powerful revolver, and now that we have one without terrible downsides, I'm happy with it. The proposed beta changes make more sense though. Not sure about disregarding 144 dmg crits though. Ranged 1 shot kills are totally different from point blank, from-behind kills. Otherwise, why have a gun? Otherwise, yes, it's just playstyles, and most playstyles are valid. I say most because sitting around for 5 minutes with C&D is a useless playstyle for babies. I use C&D sometimes, but I am still very aggressive with it.

For Saharan spy you have to use the L'Etranger gun anyway. :P

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